Meetings/20141111

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Time and date

Tuesday 11 November 2014, 6.30 PM UTC. #diaspora-meeting @ FreeNode.

Topics to discuss

Next release

Should we release during the next month?

Hosting of diasporafoundation.org

  • Who should appear in the whois information for diasporafoundation.org?
  • Move away from Dreamhost to a platform which supports multiple people having root-access to the domain?

Cleaning of Loomio

This tool became such a mess. In the current state, it's hard to redirect newcomers to it because they are immediately lost. What are the features available to admin to clean it? (Delete / merge topics, remove messages...) Do we need to give moderator rights to more people to maintain a usable state? What can we do to avoid that in the future?

Help podmins create the bridge with Facebook

Facebook released a new version of their API which will have to be used by every applications in December. The validation process is also new, the submitter has to upload screenshots and describe "where do we use Facebook Connect". It is now the third time that Facebook blocks our app for Framasphere. I think we should try to find what to answer exactly to see the app validated, and add that to the wiki Integrating_other_social_networks#Facebook with the screenshots etc, everything that the podmins will need. Then, we should post a message with DiasporaHQ to warn podmins, some of them can be not aware that the API v1 will expire soon.

Bug bounties, the way to see developers coming and things go forward?

It would be nice to see the development of the application going quicker, so we have to find ways to attract more contributors. A way to attract them and see them developing core features and not only newcomer stuff would be to give them money *but* to hire someone needs:

  • Money we don't have, donation would not be enough, and we don't feel that a crowdfunding campaign is the solution
  • A robust official structure, and leaders ready to spend time on formal documents and all the things coming with employment

The solution to pay people to work on diaspora* could be the bug bounty. Things could go that way:

  • The community defines a list of important features we'd like to see implemented
  • The core team prioritizes the features, extracting those which can be "easily" implemented (without breaking all the code, without having to spend months on it)
  • The core team open small issues for each feature. If the feature is small enough (add contact on mobile), that's fine. If the feature has to be divided in steps (pod migration), the core team open an issue for each step (json export, images export, contacts import, etc.) and a meta issue
  • The core team defines *clear specifications* on the issue. Especially, what do we expect at the end (this condition will decide if the pull request is good enough to see the developer paid), but also how we want it to be implemented.
  • Those issues are the ones we encourage people to add bounty on. We can create a list of them on the wiki (or in a meta issue?)
  • We promote those issues all the way we can: with diaspora HQ, maybe with a blogpost and on other social networks, we can contact organizations which use diaspora* such as framasoft and natural news...
  • When we see that an issue has nice bounties on it, we promote the issue to the devs, the same way than before.

What I try to solve with this plan is:

  • Define clearly what people will get if they put money (one of the biggest critic to the crowdfunding was, "this is not what I expected when I gave you money". With clear specifications, this should be avoid)
  • diasporafoundation having to get money (from donation or other ways) and then pay people. Here, we don't have to deal with money. (We can of course create bounties ourselves with the money we have, so we can pay and decide that way)
  • Do not ask for donation, organize crowdfunding, have a leader and make big choices: the people who put money directly chose what they want to see implemented

There is already bounties on diaspora*: https://www.bountysource.com/teams/diaspora

I don't know if bountysource is the best platform for bounties. You can check their FAQ: https://www.bountysource.com/faq

If the money stay in the website (== the developer uses the money received to create other bounties) there is no fee, but if he wants to get the money, there is a 10% fee. See https://www.bountysource.com/fees

IMO this is currently the easiest way to go. What do you guys think?

Weekly report to inform what's going on

The recent vote on the chat topic on loomio showed it once again: we do not communicate enough from the technical side (especially with our podmins). I think we should introduce a weekly summary of what happened in the diaspora* dev. This could contain every informations, like commits, but also more important informations like regressions in the develop branch. This could be completed by the traditionnal "bugmash monday", asking for help.

For example, it could be something like:

 This week, Lukas worked on the XMPP chat integration. It is now possible to chat with offline contact.
 Great news! The patch by Jason Robinson allowing to delete inactive accounts was merged! **Warning! This broke the compatibility with FreeBSD, if you're running a pod on FreeBSD and use the develop branch, do **not** upgrade! Sorry.
 The current most annoying bugs are #xxxx and #yyyy. Come help us and fix them! See how to contribute [here](https://wiki.diasporafoundation.org/Getting_started_with_contributing) 

Previously, there was a technical blog on diaspora*. I think that those small messages could at least be posted by diaspora HQ, but maybe reopen the technical blog would be nice?

Writing this text could be a nice task for a contributor who doesn't have enough technical knowledges to write code but want to follow closely how the projet is going on. I've got the feeling that there are other persons like Goob outdoor who could greatly improve our project :)

What did we decide?

Next release

Should we release during the next month?

No, the next release will be a major, at least the profile and the contacts views need to be polished

Hosting of diasporafoundation.org

  • Who should appear in the whois information for diasporafoundation.org?

No legal information to put at the moment, so we keep the whois as it is until we have something better.

  • Move away from Dreamhost to a platform which supports multiple people having root-access to the domain?

Dennis is going to move the dns' from dreamhosts services to dyn.org global dns network and grant zonefile-access to sean, jhass, raven24 and me

Cleaning of Loomio

Fla is going to talk with Sean to see what are the possible actions with an admin account, and who can be admin on loomio. We will probably need to set up a "moderators team", on loomio and maybe on diasporaforum.org (we didn't discuss about this initiative at this time).

Help podmins create the bridge with Facebook

Fla will post a message with his account, reshared by DHQ, to ask if podmins successfully submitted their app with the APIv2 of Facebook, and if they can improve the wiki page to help next podmins. The message will also be posted on diasporaforum.org. It will also contain a warning, in case podmins don't know that the APIv1 will be down soon.

Bug bounties, the way to see developers coming and things go forward?

See the discourse discussion

Jaywink and Fla will test bountysource.com: posting a bounty on a small issue, patch it, see how the validation process is going, activate the github plugin... If everything is fine, we will promote bountysource.com as an official way to support diaspora*.

Weekly report to inform what's going on

This has to come from the community, we can encourage people to do it and help them but we cannot engage ourselves on a weekly report about what's going on because we don't have time to write it. Fla wrote a post to tell to the users that we need help on communication.

IRC Logs

<flaburgan> so, as usual, should we release next month?
<jhass> no
<jhass> next?
<flaburgan> we at least need to polish the profile page and contacts page, so I guess no
<flaburgan> yeah agree
<raven24> agree
<DenSchub> ++
<flaburgan> Hosting of diasporafoundation.org
<svbergerem> +1
<flaburgan> here is the agenda btw: https://wiki.diasporafoundation.org/Meetings/20141111
<jaywink> agree on no release
<jaywink> I think whois should have just hosting company - ie hide owner
<jaywink> until we have a legal foundation etc bla
<DenSchub> hosting company in the whois? impossible
<DenSchub> only privacy services or natural persons
<jaywink> who owns the domain currently?
<DenSchub> sean
<jaywink> well, he is a natural person, no? :)
<DenSchub> but he isn't fine with sharing his contact details, so his address is hidden by a whois service atm
<DenSchub> *whois privacy service
<jaywink> IMHO that is good until we have something to put there
<DenSchub> i'm fine with the whois information
<flaburgan> maybe we could put contact@diasporafoundation.org?
<jaywink> flaburgan I think it needs more than email if it's not cloaked
<DenSchub> yeah, everything or nothing, that's the deal
<flaburgan> okay
<jaywink> and it has to be correct, not some random bla bal :)
<DenSchub> and we have to be careful. the one in the whois information legally owns the domain
<flaburgan> fine so we keep it as it is?
<DenSchub> fine as an interim solution
<jaywink> +1
<raven24> until we have something better, +1
<jaywink> sean is not here so +1 from him too...
<svbergerem> +1
<jaywink> :D
<DenSchub> great, 4+, next.
<flaburgan> Move away from Dreamhost to a platform which supports multiple people having root-access to the domain?
<DenSchub> full ack
<DenSchub> i'd sponsor dyn.org-dns services with access for ... the core team
<DenSchub> so everyone is able to change nameserver records, if needed
<DenSchub> and after we clearified the whois details, i'd also manage the domain. jhass can prove i'm able to do that and i'll also provide full access to all domain details to the core team
<raven24> DenSchub: so you'd sponsor webspace and dns, then :)
<DenSchub> webspace is another topic. dns is fine
<DenSchub> for now
<DenSchub> dyn's service is freaking expensive, but i'm not directly paying it, so it's fine
<DenSchub> if we get +'es on the dns, i'll talk to sean to change the nameservers asap
<flaburgan> DenSchub, seems a nice solution
<jhass> +1 :)
<raven24> +1
<jaywink> I trust DenSchub on this :)
<svbergerem> +1
<flaburgan> 6+ we're good
<DenSchub> intent to add a point to the agenda: who is "core"?
<flaburgan> DenSchub, I guess the members of the github organization
<jhass> commit access?
<jaywink> we need structure... beeen thinking about that in the wiki
<jaywink> for now, eys
<jaywink> yes
<svbergerem> I'd say full access
<flaburgan> Well, there is maybe too many people in the github orga, let's say the ones who are in it and are still active?
<raven24> do we wanna restrict it further? commits can easily reverted, random dns changes are not fun, though :P
<jhass> Owners then?
<jaywink> not many people really need access. especially if they don't know what they are doing :)
<jaywink> a few who know
<DenSchub> owners won't include jaywink and flaburgan.
<DenSchub> jaywink: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor ;)
<flaburgan> DenSchub, I'm not a sysadmin, it's fine if I don't have these access
<flaburgan> https://github.com/orgs/diaspora/people is there a way to see who are owners and who are not?
<DenSchub> so owners without the inactive ones would be sean, jhass, raven24 and me
<raven24> I mean we can send out credentials to a few more, and agree that changes are made by only one person
<DenSchub> owners are raph, daniel, max, sarah, sean, jhass, raven24 and me
<DenSchub> raven24: no. individual user accoutns per user, no shared credentials
<DenSchub> ;)
<raven24> right ^^
<flaburgan> I'm fine with active owners
<DenSchub> we can fine tune that later. proposal: sean, jhass, raven24 and me
<jaywink> +1
<svbergerem> +1
<raven24> no objection
<DenSchub> allright, 4 of... something. passed, i guess
<DenSchub> next, and i'm out at that as i have no idea what it is talking about
<flaburgan> DenSchub, can you please summarize the decision?
* dada__ (~dada@1ba55-2-88-173-31-34.fbx.proxad.net) has joined
<flaburgan> The next one is about loomio, but it is more general, it's more about how we want to manage community feedback
<DenSchub> flaburgan: move the dns' from dreamhosts services to dyn.org global dns network, grant zonefile-access to  sean, jhass, raven24 and me
<flaburgan> DenSchub, thanks
<flaburgan> so, there are many duplicate, old discussions and other mess on loomio, what can we do about that? I think I'm not an admin there
<flaburgan> can we setup a "moderators team" or something like that?
<jaywink> we defo should have FULL admin rights for more than one person, which I think is sean atm
<DenSchub> i know sean is admin, but i have no idea if there is any group-support in loomio
<flaburgan> the application evolved a lot since we started used it
<flaburgan> So, I can probably check with Sean, see if he can give right to more people
<raven24> I think we may need to ask sean to look for a button making other people admin
* Augier (~augier@mla78-1-82-240-17-190.fbx.proxad.net) has joined
<flaburgan> so, who do we want to be admin?
<jaywink> I'm already admin of some groups so don't mind more :)
<flaburgan> jaywink, what are the admins right? delete topics?
<jaywink> flaburgan I have no idea. move at least - which would be good. but then the loomio subgroups is kinda confusing
<jaywink> also edit proposal closing times, etc
<raven24> kinda hard to reach a conclusion here, since we don't have the specifics of what moderation means on loomio
<flaburgan> brb
<jaywink> next topic maybe?
<raven24> let's discuss that point on loomio :) maybe find some moderators from the people who are active there, specify requirements, etc
<DenSchub> sorry, brb 3min
<jaywink> raven24 ye
<jaywink> next topic? :)
<flaburgan> there is also the diasporaforum.org website
<flaburgan> so we should probably wonder if we want it to be an "official" website or not
<flaburgan> initial we said that it would not be a good idea to have yet another plateform
<jaywink> I'd let that one brew a bit :) it's very fresh
<raven24> yeah
<flaburgan> okay
<flaburgan> so next is
<raven24> facebook
<flaburgan> yeah
<flaburgan> people from framasphere.org have real troubles to set the facebook connection
<flaburgan> they changed their policy
<flaburgan> and ask now for a review, and they refused twice the submission 
<flaburgan> the old API v1 will expire at the end of december
<jaywink> someone could improve the guide in the wiki on how to make a successful  interaction with facebook, including review tips. other than that - what can we do?
<flaburgan> so every pods will have to submit their application before this date
<flaburgan> jaywink, yeah, provide screenshots, etc
<raven24> does our facebook-gem cover the api-change or do we have to work on that, too?
<flaburgan> jaywink,  I don't feel fluent enough with english to be able to do that
<jaywink> raven24 I'm assuming it covers since some have created apps with the new api
<jaywink> I think all new apps are new api
<raven24> ok
<raven24> so we'd just need one "successful" new app, to report what needs to happen in the wiki
<jaywink> I could improve the wiki but I'm really short on time :( I'll have to update my pod FB integration errr soon I guess, but prob around december if I cannot get around to before that. If I do it, I'll defo post some wiki updates
<jaywink> so if someone has free time and loves FB - plz :)
<jaywink> we could shout out to the podmin community via diaspora hq?
<flaburgan> jaywink, yeah, a diaspora HQ message would be useful
<raven24> maybe to a podmin-aspect first, to get them informed
<raven24> then a public follow-up?
<jaywink> who has the largest podmin aspect? :)
<flaburgan> (we're going back to the "we need a way to easily contact podmins" problem, discourse provide mailing list so maybe diasporaforum.org will be the solution, I'll post a message there too)
<jaywink> I have 103 it seems - though many  I suspect are dead
<flaburgan> jaywink, I guess jhass 
<raven24> or maybe a public post from one of our accounts with the #podmin tag
<jaywink> who wants an action point to post out to the podmins?
<jaywink> flaburgan ? :)
<flaburgan> jaywink, Yeah I can do that
<raven24> maybe do a pad with the message again, that worked nicely last time
<jaywink> I'll *try* to work on the guide, if I get around to updating my pod any time soon
<flaburgan> So let's summarize
<flaburgan> I'll post a message with my account, reshared by DHQ, to ask if podmins successfully submitted their app with the APIv2 of Facebook, and if they can improve the wiki page to help next podmins
<jaywink> +1
<jaywink> also if you want, diasporaforum and mailing list copy paste
<jaywink> would be handy
<raven24> sounds good!
<flaburgan> okay, fine
<flaburgan> okay next
<flaburgan> so bug bounties
* dada__ est maintenant connu sous le nom dada_afk
<flaburgan> we already talked a little bit about it on d*
<DenSchub> okay, ack.
<DenSchub> +b
<flaburgan> so the question is, do we want to officially promote bug bounties as a way to sponsorise diaspora*
<jaywink> btw, someone donated $50 today to the bugbounties team :)
<flaburgan> and the answer is yes, do we want to use bountysource to do so?
<jaywink> I mean bountysource
<jaywink> it seems popular, owncloud just started using it
<jaywink> many others
<jaywink> so I'd say yeah give it a try
<jaywink> already $150 in bounties + $50 in team reservoir
<DenSchub> bounties are just another way of priorizing issues by the community... i wouldn't put much effeort in it, but if the community likes it, why not
<flaburgan> here is the FAQ if you want to read it: https://www.bountysource.com/faq
<raven24> ok so they use the github issues to place bounties, then who gets it? who can 'claim' the bounty?
<flaburgan> so when a developer get a bounty, he can reuse it completely for example to sponsor other issues, but if he wants the money he will have a 10% fee
<flaburgan> raven24, the developer can say "I am working on it"
<flaburgan> then if the pull request is merged I guess he gets the money
<jaywink> well, after it is accepted :)
<jaywink> not automatically
<svbergerem> DenSchub: asking for some features a thousand times won't help implementing those. Money might help ;)
<jaywink> there is a 2 week "review" period
<flaburgan> what about that: we first try to use it, like we put $10 on an issue, someone from the core team solves it and we see how it is processed
<DenSchub> svbergerem: yep, that's the point
<flaburgan> jaywink, yeah the question is who "accepts" it
<jaywink> flaburgan we have $50 in the team on bountysource to spend!!
<flaburgan> jaywink, nice
<jaywink> flaburgan team members - eg github contribs who sign to bountysource
<jaywink> ping me :D
<jaywink> I'm the only membeeeeer
<flaburgan> there is no fee if we don't ask the "real" money so we can make tests
<flaburgan> jaywink, I'd like to be one I guess ;)
<raven24> ok so the github team is also on bountysource and they ("we") get notified about resolved bounties and can accept or reject giving the developer the bounty
<jaywink> anyone object to flaburgan being a member at bountysource?
<DenSchub> nah
<jaywink> raven24 github team is going to be in the future automatic members, currently managed by hand
<raven24> i see
<jaywink> members can be others too, admins maintain them
<jaywink> only bountysource members will get to approve etc
<flaburgan> So do we have any special to decide? jaywink as an admin, did you notice something we have to vote about? like the github plugin
<raven24> well, looks good and if it increases motivation - then why not
<jaywink> we can test it as said with a dummy issue (or real), then the person just redonates the money back once granted it. unless cashed out it's jsut bits
<flaburgan> okay so I note, we'll test it, create the d* team on the website, and then promote it
<flaburgan> at least on diaspora itself
<flaburgan> and maybe on other social network
<jaywink> yeah we can continue discussion on loomio
<jaywink> there is a question already from me what integration we should enable
<raven24> let's try it out then. :)
<DenSchub> +
<jaywink> +1 (and inviting fla now :))
<flaburgan> jaywink, thanks :)
<jaywink> once I find your email
<flaburgan> flaburgan@geexxx.fr
<flaburgan> (do not use .com by mistake, it's not an nice website... :p)
<flaburgan> so next topic is, weekly point about what's going on in the project
<flaburgan> I think this can be a nice "job" for someone who wants to follow what's going on in the project without having enough technical knowledge to develop
<flaburgan> kind of a community manager
<DenSchub> what's a "weekly point"?
<flaburgan> or we (the social team) can do it, each week someone different
<flaburgan> DenSchub, https://wiki.diasporafoundation.org/Meetings/20141111#Weekly_point_to_inform_what.27s_going_on
<flaburgan> DenSchub, that's maybe a bad english...
<DenSchub> what do you mean? in french?
<DenSchub> :)
<flaburgan> In french? Faire le point
<flaburgan> that means "Answer to the question. what did happen last week?"
<jaywink> I think it's a great idea but the initiative should come from someone who wants to do it.
<DenSchub> ah, more like a weekly report, i understand
<jaywink> of course we could post out from diaspora hq asking if someone wants to
<jaywink> but it would have to be someone who knows what things are, not just eager :)
<raven24> yeah, relying on the devs to do it doesn't seem to work
<raven24> a post on all the social media channels might make sense
<flaburgan> jaywink, want to do the post?
<jaywink> hmm, might need drafting :P
<raven24> so a pad for the post, then ^^
<jaywink> I need to run guys
<flaburgan> okay, summarize of the meeting: we do not release next month, we don't change the whois of diasporafoundation.org at the moment, DenSchub will change the dns and jhass raven24 and Sean will have access to it, I'll ask sean about loomio rights and what we can do about it, then I'll try to set up a moderators team, we have to create a post about APIv2 of FB and ask for podmins who successed to set it up, if they can com
<flaburgan> plete the wiki (who wants to create the pad and draft?), jaywink and I will test bountysource.com and keep you in touch, and 
<DenSchub> jaywink: have a nice day
<jaywink> great evening to everyone :) cya!
* jaywink a quitté (Quit: Leaving)
<flaburgan> we have to draft the post about a potential community manager
<flaburgan> or at least someone who wants to write a weekly report
<flaburgan> does everyone agree?
<raven24> flaburgan: sounds good! I see you already updated the wiki, could you also post the log
<DenSchub> i don't think we made the best experiences with a dedicated community manager..
<DenSchub> ;)
<DenSchub> but someone writing a text per week would be fine
<raven24> yeah, maybe start small and see what develops ;)
<flaburgan> raven24, +1
<flaburgan> sorry ><
<flaburgan> I'll post the logs
<flaburgan> fine
<raven24> so we have no other points to discuss for today? everybody happy? ^^

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