Meetings/20140211: Difference between revisions

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== Topic to discuss ==
== Topics to discuss ==


=== Diaspora Foundation ===
=== Diaspora Foundation ===
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If so, are these the finished product or are they less than perfect? Do we want to officially promote the Bitnami installers to encourage more people to set up pods?
If so, are these the finished product or are they less than perfect? Do we want to officially promote the Bitnami installers to encourage more people to set up pods?


=== Release process ===
==== Next release ====
    We'll decide at each monthly meeting whether we are ready to release a new version within the next month.
==== Prevent regressions in future releases ====
0.3.0.0 introduced a lot of regressions. How do we prevent that in future releases?
=== Topics from last meeting ===
==== diaspora* hosting via arvixe.com ====
What happened?


== What did we decide? ==
== What did we decide? ==


=== 1. Diaspora Foundation -> Structure ===
How do we want to make use of the foundation structure? What needs to happen for the foundation to have a meaningful practical role in the project? (e.g., do we appoint officers? formalise a structure?)
====== Discussion: ======
* The current informal structure is working well, and we are improving our efficiency in dealing with tasks that need attention.
====== Action points: ======
* We will continue with the current informal structure unless weaknesses with this approach become apparent.
=== 2. Donations ===
Do we want to accept donations at the moment, and if so, what do we want to use funds for? Does anyone know about the legal aspects of bypassing the FSSN for donations, so that people can donate using means other than Paypal?
====== Discussion: ======
* At the moment we don't have concrete ideas what any funds raised could be used for.
* We have one means of accepting donations: to the FSSN via their Paypal account.
* We would like to have other means of donating (flattr, Bitcoin, etc).
====== Action points: ======
* We will add a donate button to the project site.
* DeadSuperHero will contact the FSSN to establish better communication with them, and to clarify the situation concerning any funds they receive.
* DeadSuperHero and goob will draft a proposal and we will discuss on Loomio what we will use funds for.
=== 3. Bitnami installers ===
Has anyone tested the [http://bitnami.com/stack/diaspora installers created by Bitnami]? If so, are these the finished product or are they less than perfect? Do we want to officially promote the Bitnami installers to encourage more people to set up pods?
====== Discussion: ======
* The Bitnami package is closed-source, although all it does is install the Diaspora code.
* We have a link to these installers on our wiki, but will not promote the Bitnami installers further than this.
=== 4. Next release. ===
====== Discussion: ======
* Many regressions introduced by 0.3.0.x have been fixed. The poor functioning of hovercards is one fix which is outstanding.
====== Action points: ======
* We will release a bug fix release as soon as possible, once hovercards have been fixed.
* This will contain only fixes for the regressions caused by 0.3.0.0, and any other important bug fixes.
* New code will be held over until a release at a later date.
=== 5. Preventing regressions in future releases ===
0.3.0.0 introduced a lot of regressions. How do we prevent that in future releases?
====== Action points: ======
* At each monthly meeting, we will decide whether to release in the next month, and what bits of code (if any) we will wait to be merged before releasing.
* There will be a one-week 'code freeze' between the last piece of code being merged and releasing, to give proper time for testing.
* This one-week period will not apply to critical bug fixes, but will apply to code such as new features, refactoring etc.
=== 6. diaspora* hosting via arvixe.com ===
What happened?
====== Discussion: ======
* jaywink and marekjm sent an email to the hoster as agreed in the last meeting. He said he would set up a pod, but has not yet done so.
====== Action points: ======
* jaywink will write to arvixe to ask them to correct the informantion on that page.
* goob will start a Loomio discussion about our approach to the use of diaspora* branding by third parties: both 1) using the branding to advertise a product 2) the branding is the product (like unixstickers)
* we'll also discuss whether to ask sites which use D* branding for a contribution, once we've settled the issue of how to use donations (item 2).


== IRC logs ==
== IRC logs ==
<pre>
goob: Evening all.
svbergerem: good evening goob
goob: hi
DeadSuperHero: hai
goob: Who's chairing the meeting tonight? Fla said he would be late.
jaywink: goob, want to? ;)
goob: I need to take a back seat tonight, sorry.
jaywink: ok - I'll do it then
jaywink: *bangs hammer*
goob: ouch!
jaywink: *krhm* welcome to our meeting, blaa blaa blaa, everybody happy to start?
jaywink: suggestions for meeting topics -> https://wiki.diasporafoundation.org/Meetings/20140211
svbergerem: sure :)
goob: yup
jaywink: 1. Diaspora Foundation -> Structure
jaywink: "How do we want to make use of the foundation structure? What needs to happen for the foundation to have a meaningful practical role in the project? (e.g., do we appoint officers? formalise a structure?) "
goob: This is mine. May already be settled but I don't know the answer.
goob: So thought it was worth raising.
goob: I don't have a strong view on this. I think we're doing quite well at the moment
jaywink: It's a great topic - but I think it's also something we cannot really decide upon, of course we can talk but really someone needs to do something concrete .. like make a proposal for foundation structure / rules - if we want something like that...
goob: with a loose structure, but do we need formal structure to push the project forward?
jaywink: all organizations have structure. even ours does. But our organization is so small that does it need _more_ structure right now?
jhass: I vote for postpone until the current structure shows a concrete weaknesses
svbergerem: jaywink & jhass: I agree
goob: jaywink, you're prob right. Shall we decide if exploring a more formal structure is a good idea or not?
goob: OK, I'm fine with that.
svbergerem: Are there any weaknesses right now?
goob: My question was really whether we can improve on what we have.
jaywink: we've already improved lately - by implementing this meeting and the new release process. SO we are constantly improving
goob: Weaknesses: perhaps only in sometimes not being sure who should tackle which task, eg press enquiries.
goob: So far we've done well by people volunteering. And things are improving.
goob: Is everyone agreed, then, to leave things as they are for now?
svbergerem: yes
jaywink: +1 - and when someone thinks of problems - let's handle them in smaller pieces :)
jaywink: goob, maybe raise the press enquiries on loomio - personally I think it's not that big of an issue who replies, as long as someone would reply :P
jaywink: next topic?
goob: Sure, as long as there's always someone happy to do it!
svbergerem: Oh there is another thing that could be a problem:
svbergerem: raising money
jaywink: that is the next topic
jaywink: :)
jhass: if that's not the case anymore we should just call out to extend the press team. If you need more structure inside the press team that's not a general concern as far as I'm concerned
svbergerem: okay^^
goob: next topic fine by me.
jaywink: Donations
jaywink: "Do we want to accept donations at the moment, and if so, what do we want to use funds for? Does anyone know about the legal aspects of bypassing the FSSN for donations, so that people can donate using means other than Paypal? "
svbergerem: there is also a discussion on loomio about unixstickers
svbergerem: And it is possible that we will get some money for the stickers they sell
goob: It would be great if DeadSuperHero could explain a bit the legal side re donations and FSSN.
jaywink: I think there is some fear about receiving money - I don't see why, if someone wants to push some money into the paypal account we really should let them
svbergerem: jaywink: +1
goob: Now that D* has a non-profit umbrella in USA (FSSN), could we legally accept donations outside of the FSSN channel?
DeadSuperHero: goob: All I know, at this particular moment, is that the FSSN acts as an umbrella for the Diaspora project.
DeadSuperHero: Kind of like a bank account in a sense, they can hold funds for us the way a non-profit holds funds for itself.
jaywink: goob, none of us are legally tied to diaspora as a project - any one of us could receive funds as a personal person - otherwise prob no :)
DeadSuperHero: I think what really needs to happen with FSSN stuff is that we need to find a way to communicate between Diaspora the project and some member of the FSSN.
jhass: ^ +1 on that
svbergerem: +1
DeadSuperHero: Rather, just having something worth communicating about.
jaywink: DeadSuperHero, +1
goob: Is D* still legally incorporated in USA? So do those legal restrictions still apply? Most people now active in project are in other countries.
svbergerem: adding more ways to receive money would be great
DeadSuperHero: It is, but isn't. D inc no longer holds the copyrights or anything.
DeadSuperHero: Tbh it's just the legal name of what is now BackerKit, and is therefore unrelated.
goob: So if FSSN is the legal entity, hopefully D* can accept donations via other channels without problems.
DeadSuperHero: I would imagine so.
goob: It would be great to sort that out, as it seems to be a bit of a sticking point at the moment.
DeadSuperHero: Well, I see it as two sticking points.
DeadSuperHero: One, just maintaining a dialogue with FSSN.
goob: Assuming we want to accept donations, that is!
jaywink: goob, why wouldn't we?
DeadSuperHero: the second is just having goals worthy of the money to raise
goob: Does anyone have communication with FSSN at the moment.
goob: jaywink, I'm just not making assumptions.
DeadSuperHero: No, but admittedly, that kind of thing is just an email away.
DeadSuperHero: I wouldn't mind sending something off to say "Hey, we're still alive, we'd like to know what we should be doing on our end, should we check in with you once a month or something?"
goob: If you wouldn't mind, DSH, that would be a great help.
jaywink: DeadSuperHero, could you do that? asking about the unixstickers deal too?
DeadSuperHero: Yeah, I certainly wouldn't mind. Related to Unixstickers, do we have anything else like that going on?
DeadSuperHero: I thought there was some hosting company that wanted us to plug them?
goob: Oh yes, from last meeting. Did whoever contacted them ever hear back?
jaywink: DeadSuperHero, yeah, they just want visibility for themselves ;) it's a topic later
goob: Yes, later topic.
DeadSuperHero: Understood. I just think we should try summarizing all of those kinds of things in an initial email to FSSN.
goob: So, donations: do we want to actively seek them, and what would we use money for?
svbergerem: there is no actual deal but we could also use tools like flattr
jaywink: ok so DeadSuperHero will contact the FSSN .. I don't think there is anything else except unixstickers going on
goob: Two separate but related questions.
DeadSuperHero: goob: good question
DeadSuperHero: I think one of the obvious things we could do is sponsor some lower-level devs.
DeadSuperHero: For example, Jaywink does a lot of work using Diaspora-tools
DeadSuperHero: Purely hypothetical, but imagine if he could be sponsored to do something more complex down the road, such as JSON import/export from pod to pod.
jaywink: DeadSuperHero, hah no, I can think of many more who would be worth donations than me :)
DeadSuperHero: I know, I'm just saying.
goob: Two approaches: sponsor tasks (eg migrations), or sponsor people.
DeadSuperHero: Somebody out there probably wouldn't mind making a few bucks to help get rid of Diaspora's long-standing complex stuff. I wouldn't mind sponsoring Florian for his work on putting federation into a gem, for example.
DeadSuperHero: That's some pretty heavy stuff that not a lot of people know how to do.
jaywink: we could try to think of a formal budget that would be based on percentages (10% devs, 10% chosen pods, etc etc) - and then spend that monthly or bimonthly?
goob: In other words, do we say 'we'll pay whoever takes this task on', or sponsor people who are doing continuing valuable work?
DeadSuperHero: Not a bad thought, but a formal budget implies formal structure.
DeadSuperHero: And I don't believe we're all that formal really. More volunteer community than anything, and that's okay.
svbergerem: I think we could do that via loomio
goob: To start with, perhaps we should just choose broad areas we'd like money for.
jhass: I think we shouldn't go beyond bug bounties for now
DeadSuperHero: I'd be okay with broad areas rather than bounties.
goob: e.g. development, website costs, pod maintenance, etc.
DeadSuperHero: If anything, that might attract some people more to working on related ideas if we say "We want to evaluate a third-party API", or "we want to redo how our federation works".
jaywink: as long as we agree rules and agree who has authority - bingo, we can then use the money for whatever
goob: Would Loomio be better for this, or during this 'live' meeting?
jaywink: loomio
DeadSuperHero: Loomio.
jaywink: anyone want to draft something? rules, discussion or proposals? ;)
svbergerem: I'd say as soon as we got some money we could ask on Loomio what to do with it
goob: OK. Is everyone positive about seeking funding, and working on Loomio to decide how to use it?
goob: I'm happy to draft something. But will prob need some help/input from others.
jaywink: great
svbergerem: sounds good
goob: I guess one question is: what is D* lacking by not having money?
jaywink: the unixstickers thingy would at least bring something, then we could just add a donate button to the project site ... I don't see why we need to make a big deal of it. but the discussion should start
goob: That could help decide priorities.
DeadSuperHero: I'd be happy to give some input in my spare time, goob. Let's hash something rough out through Diaspora Messages and put our results on Loomio for others to evaluate?
goob: OK DeadSuperHero, thanks. Let's do that.
DeadSuperHero: goob: what is d lacking? Developers that can do the low-level stuff.
DeadSuperHero: more importantly than developers, knowledge on how to work with such things. It remains a niche specialty.
goob: Everyone happy with getting a donation button on the project site?
svbergerem: goob: yes
DeadSuperHero: yes
jaywink: yes
jhass: would jd.com receive funds from the fssn?
svbergerem: When looking at the unixstickers deal we could ask them to send low-level dev XYZ some stickers
DeadSuperHero: I'd be okay with that.
DeadSuperHero: jhass: no
goob: FSSN holds money for D Foundation, not D Inc/jd.com, doesn't it?
jaywink: jd.com already has a donate button btw, it says "Donate to the FSSN" - any idea if it goes to the FSSN or to diaspora*?
DeadSuperHero: it does go to the FSSN
jhass: max was pushing for the donation button quickly after the ffsn took over, that made me suspicious
DeadSuperHero: I get that.
jhass: and the button code on jd.com is actually the same that he wanted to be added to df.org
DeadSuperHero: I think he was just overly eager to get the D* project some independent funds and structure, and he didn't really think about what the funds would be used for.
DeadSuperHero: But no, that button, the funds submitted through it, do not go to him.
DeadSuperHero: We can verify that via FSSN.
goob: I think we can allow people to donate if they want to, and then do active fund-raising once we know what we would use funds for.
jaywink: DeadSuperHero, could you verify the button code once more while you send the email for other stuff too - then we add a button?
jhass: and it's actually the same code in jd.coms "keep this pod running" sidebase
DeadSuperHero: jaywink: I'd be happy to.
jhass: *sidebar
DeadSuperHero: goob: Good thinking.
DeadSuperHero: I think what might be a good idea is sort of a "sort push", in which just every pod has a little place for fundraising to either DF.org or the pod itself.
DeadSuperHero: It wouldn't be huge amounts of money, but that's not the point.
jhass: DeadSuperHero: could you also include a request of clarification about whether jd.com would receive funds in your mail to FSSN please? and CC team@df.org? I'd just be happy to hear from them
DeadSuperHero: jhass: of course
jhass: thank you
jaywink: ok so summa summarum, DeadSuperHero and goob work out some discussion for Loomio, DeadSuperHero contacts the FSSN about improving communications with them AND making sure of the donate button code - then we add a button to the project site?
DeadSuperHero: Sounds like a plan to me.
jaywink: great :)
DeadSuperHero: I can try to get all that done sometime today here. :)
jaywink: next topic: Bitnami installers
DeadSuperHero: I think in my initial email to FSSN, I will introduce team@df so that we can open up communication to be between more individuals from within Diaspora.
jaywink: "Has anyone tested the installers created by Bitnami? http://bitnami.com/stack/diaspora
jaywink: If so, are these the finished product or are they less than perfect? Do we want to officially promote the Bitnami installers to encourage more people to set up pods? "
DeadSuperHero: Are Bitnami installers open?
jhass: the actual installer code is closed source, but all it install is FOSS
jaywink: DeadSuperHero, afaik no? though they provide not only installers, but ready images too
jhass: I'm not sure if we want to promote it beyond listing it on w.df.org/Installation (which we already do)
DeadSuperHero: I suppose the question is whether we'd want to promote a proprietary installer for a FOSS project.
jaywink: someone ran into problems upgrading a 0.2.0.0 bitnami installed pod, ended up reinstalling via git
jaywink: jhass, +1
DeadSuperHero: That being said, could we use the Bitnami installer as an inspiration for our own official solution?
jaywink: we shouldn't suggest it as an official method but just acknowledge that that can be done too
goob: "I suppose the question is whether we'd want to promote a proprietary installer for a FOSS project." - yes, that was my question.
jaywink: so we agree "no - we'll just keep the info up to date in the wiki"?
svbergerem: jaywink +1
goob: jhass & jaywink, yes I agree with that proposal.
jaywink: btw, funnily enough, they sent me a t-shirt lol. guess because of the blog entry. corruption attempt! :D
DeadSuperHero: Yeah, I agree.
DeadSuperHero: Careful, jaywink, you risk becoming a $hill for Bitnami. Capture Theory 2.0
jaywink: OK next -> Release process -> Next release
jaywink: "We'll decide at each monthly meeting whether we are ready to release a new version within the next month."
jaywink: so - do we? :)
jaywink: (or are we)
svbergerem: there were some regression fixes
svbergerem: the hovercard regression remains
DeadSuperHero: Regression fixes would be good. It'd be nice to get hover cards back to normal.
jaywink: must say due to new job I've kept little eye except that many things have been refactored and fixed ... how stable? anyone? everything seems fine on my pod, updated yesterday after the manic merging by jhass :)
goob: I would say wait until all regressions from 0.3.x have been fixed.
goob: Unless there is one which is going to take a long time.
DeadSuperHero: Would we have enough time to Bootstrapify the stream and elements related to it?
jaywink: anyone working on the annoying hovers?
jhass: if the hovercard is fixed I'd be okay with cherry-picking the regression fixes into a new release branch, but there's been quite a bit new code merged that I'd like see further exercised and polished
jaywink: I would shout BIG +1 to hovercard fix any time
goob: A minor release with just regression fixes would be great, new features/etc could wait.
goob: But I'd like to see the hovercards fixed before we release again.
svbergerem: jhass +1
jaywink: so we all agree that we will release a bug fix release if we get hovercards fixed? otherwise let's catch up next meeting
goob: Hi Fla,
goob: jaywink: yes.
svbergerem: agree
svbergerem: DeadSuperHero: I think porting to Bootstrap will take some time
DeadSuperHero: That's okay.
DeadSuperHero: If no one else is working on it, I might be interested in just trying to convert the grid over and getting rid of blueprint.
jaywink: Next -> Prevent regressions in future releases (sorry let's keep going :))
jaywink: "0.3.0.0 introduced a lot of regressions. How do we prevent that in future releases? "
jhass: DeadSuperHero: sure, we welcome that. just keep in mind that it's probably a bit more work than "just" ;)
DeadSuperHero: Yeah, I've learned that one the hard way before. Still, it'd be nice. :3
goob: That would be great, DeadSuperHero.
DeadSuperHero: jaywink: Regarding regressions, I think that's just the nature of development and the fact that we have volunteers all working on different parts of the codebase. Regressions are bound to happen.
goob: I must listen to the experts on this one!
jaywink: DeadSuperHero, totally agree
jhass: the classical way of prevent them in a release is something like a two to three week feature freeze before release
DeadSuperHero: I suppose we might want to think of some way to document how things currently are in Diaspora, how the little pieces all talk to one another, and document pieces that are subject to change.
svbergerem: how to prevent regressions: code freeze for n days where n >= 2
jaywink: IF we wanted we could do a release candidate
DeadSuperHero: RC might be overkill though.
jaywink: but is the occasional regression worth that?
goob: My only thought is that when a new piece of code is introduced, a note to people running develop in pod/test envs:
goob: containing particular potential problems to look out for.
goob: Obviously this can only be done for things which can be foreseen!
jaywink: question: would a feature freeze helped for the current regressions?
svbergerem: goob: those things are tested before merging
jaywink: hovercard - was it merged in just before the release?
goob: Agree with a minimum period between code being merged and released.
jaywink: same for discussions bug fixed in 0.3.0.1?
DeadSuperHero: Maybe. Perhaps if we just spent a week or so picking up regressions before pushing out a stable release?
goob: DeadSuperHero: that's what I was thinking.
svbergerem: jaywink: discussions bug was introduces just a few days before release
goob: But need the view of jhass and others who are at the centre of the coding.
svbergerem: **introduced
jaywink: svbergerem, ok so a feature freeze would prob have helped
svbergerem: btw I meant code freeze +  testing on dev pods
jaywink: svbergerem, yeah code freeze - meant that too ;) we can only "not merge" stuff in
jaywink: should we implement that to our release process? one week? two weeks? IMHO one week would be a good one to start with
jhass: one week is minimum IMO
jhass: from the start of the meeting we decide to release?
DeadSuperHero: Maybe, but should we constrain it to just meetings?
goob: jhass: 1 week minimum, but what time would you say is optimum?
jhass: goob: probably different in each project and I don't have the experience for a single one to answer that
jaywink: jhass, well in the meeting we might say "let's decide to release once X gets merged in in the coming days" .. I'd say the freeze happens after that, not after the meeting
meetingSchub is now known as DenSchub
jhass: we just have to try a few things
jhass: jaywink: ok, sounds sound
goob: jhass: OK, thanks.
goob: jaywink: that sounds like a good idea.
svbergerem: start with 1 week?
jaywink: +1
jhass: okay, optimistic approach
goob: does this apply also to bugfixes, or only 'new' features?
jaywink: imho critical fixes are always critical - no rules apply to them ;)
jhass: new code, fixes to existing code are the point to doing that
jhass: refactoring is considered new code in that
svbergerem: jhass +1
DeadSuperHero: agreed.
goob: sounds good to me.
jaywink: ok, last (listed) topic: diaspora* hosting via arvixe.com
jaywink: "What happened?"
jaywink: :)
jaywink: so as agreed in the previous meeting
jhass: we didn't hear back, right?
jhass: does he still advertise with our brand?
jaywink: we sent an email to the guy (I did, Marek helped draft it)
flaburgan: hi guys
DeadSuperHero: hey fla
jaywink: he replied back, saying he will try to set up the demo instance (as we agreed we would ask)
svbergerem: hey flaburgan
jaywink: this was 27th jan
jaywink: I sent another query yesterdya - no reply
jaywink: BUT
jaywink: the page they created with our branding is in fact not linked to their site
jaywink: so it's something they made to show to us so we would be interested - so I doubt they are "using our brand to advertise" yet at least
jaywink: but still, the page makes false promised
jaywink: s
jaywink: that diaspora* can run on their $4 /mo shared plans
jaywink: so we really can just tell them we don't want to cooperate and ask to destroy the page OR we can ask them to change the information to a minimum VPS deal?
jaywink: it would be beneficial for the project for them to list the page on their home page (imho) - but the details need to be right
jaywink: I assume it would end up on the list here if we approved: http://www.arvixe.com/social_network_hosting
goob: If they haven't proven that a d* pod can successfully be run on their service, should we be directing people towards them?
goob: Even passively - I don't mean we actively tell people to use them.
jaywink: goob, they offer VPS's so I'm sure their servers can run diaspora - just not with the details now on the page where they say "as low as $4 a month" (shared hosting)
jaywink: having them list us doesn't mean we have to list them :)
goob: Is there any benefit to D* to be promoted via a particular host?
jaywink: goob, there is always benefit to having links to the project on any internet site :)
goob: I think better for us to focus on having really clear info for potential podmins (which I'm going to work on).
DeadSuperHero: Yeah, I agree with goob.
goob: Agreement from last meeting:
goob: - We decided to give the company two weeks to provide running demo server of Diaspora*.
goob: - If they fail we'll give them one week to remove the branding.
goob: - Upon failure to remove the branding, escalate the issue to FSSN.
goob: So I guess we've already decided what to do.
jaywink: well, technically the site is not live - so I'm not sure how we can demand them to remove the branding - of course we can but ... :)
DeadSuperHero: I guess we could try following up with them before looking to the FSSN for help?
goob: DeadSuperHero, yes following up with them is step 2, involving FSSN is step 3.
DeadSuperHero: ;)
jaywink: also, why don't we want hosting providers to advertise us?
DeadSuperHero: It's not that we don't.
DeadSuperHero: If anything, the ubiquity is nice.
DeadSuperHero: But we also want to embrace making installation viable for anyone, on any host that isn't shared hosting.
goob: jaywink, they're advertising themselves using D*'s name.
goob: Which isn't necessarily bad, but we want to be sure that their promises are good.
jaywink: goob, doesn't any VPS advertise with say Wordpress name when they say our services run Wordpress?
goob: Otherwise could associate D* with a bad name - if people see D*'s name there and sign up with them to host a pod and then have problems, they might be annoyed with D*.
DeadSuperHero: I suppose it all boils down to presentation.
DeadSuperHero: If they're just offering "Diaspora Pod hosting", I see nothing wrong with that.
DeadSuperHero: Claiming to be Diaspora and themselves be involved in Diaspora's development is where fallacious logic comes into play.
goob: So why did we decide as we did last month? Everyone was agreed then, I thought.
jaywink: this is the landing page they proposed: http://www.arvixe.com/diaspora-hosting
DeadSuperHero: It doesn't look bad.
goob: When we agreed that if they didn't set up a pod within two weeks, we would given them one week to remove the branding.
jaywink: goob, at the time I though the page was linked to their home page. it is not (or it's hidden somewhere)
goob: Well surely if they haven't complied with our step 1, we don't want that page to go live?
svbergerem: ask them to correct the information or otherwise remove the page?
jaywink: svbergerem, +1
jaywink: also the branding is actually wrong. I don't think that image is even on our branding page :)
goob: So are we no longer concerned whether they can set up a pod?
jaywink: goob, in a VPS environment, we know a pod can be set up
DeadSuperHero: Well, what would it take to get that page fixed up?
DeadSuperHero: Correct the branding, maybe make some links to DF.org more prominent.
DeadSuperHero: Ensure that a live version of a pod on their hosting platform doesn't suck.
jaywink: http://www.arvixe.com/vps_virtual_private_servers_hosting
DeadSuperHero: No mention of Diaspora.
goob: Well it definitely needs to make clear that D* needs a VPS.
goob: But at $40 minimum (not cheap for a VPS), that might put people off setting up a pod!
goob: So do we want to be associated with them?
jaywink: goob, no one is endorsing them
goob: I repeat my question from earlier: what will be the benefit to D* of having a logo on their site?
goob: I'd say it would be minimal. The benefit (if any) will be to them
DeadSuperHero: I just don't think there's a huge detriment.
svbergerem: DeadSuperHero: +1
DeadSuperHero: If someone doesn't like those prices, maybe Diaspora can point to other prices on other services.
jaywink: I don't think there is a real issue here except with the false info IF they linked the page to their actual site. And if they fix the information and link it - hey, more links to D*
svbergerem: If anyone would like to promote his service by mentioning that you can run diaspora* on it is fine as long as the given information is correct
jaywink: +1
DeadSuperHero: +1
goob: We already voted a month ago to ask them to remove the branding.
goob: That remains my vote.
goob: You others can outvote me if you want.
jaywink: hmm. well, I guess we have to vote then. of course goob if you feel so strongly on keeping the resolution of last time (there is no reason we cannot rethink things) - then we can move this to loomio
svbergerem: Even if the page is not live we should ask them to remove it or improve it
goob: Ask them to correct information for now.
goob: We can always review later.
jaywink: ok
goob: I'm happy with majority vote in this meeting, although I'm aware there are only 4 of us talking at the moment.
goob: Would like to hear from a few more.
DeadSuperHero: If you'd like, start a poll on Loom?
jhass: I'm silent because I'm unsure, I feel like it's not good that this page exists but it's a feeling I can't back by strong reasoning, thus I'm silent
goob: I think it's not major enough for Loomio. Plus Loomio votes take ages.
goob: How about:
goob: Ask them to correct information for now.
DeadSuperHero: Works for me.
goob: Or remove page.
svbergerem: +1
goob: But don't say anything about 'we're happy for the page to go live'.
jaywink: ok - I can send email and CC press as before (unless someone else wants to)
goob: And then we'll make some guidelines for any hosting website that wants to use D*'s name/branding.
jhass: jaywink: apparently not, thank you
flaburgan: do we want to ask them money because they use the brand?
jaywink: goob, we should really have more guidelines in the branding page
flaburgan: :p
jaywink: we don't even have any instructions on who can use the branding
jaywink: just a bunch of pics
svbergerem: ahh flaburgan is back :)
jaywink: how can we claim they cannot be used if we don't say so?
flaburgan: the time to read (quickly) the whole conversation :p
goob: OK, we'll have a Loomio discussion about use of branding by third parties.
jaywink: flaburgan, does wordpress get money from everyone who advertises wordpress installs? ;)
goob: So we're clear about it in the future,
flaburgan: jaywink, we have some instructions about uppercase and stuff like that
flaburgan: jaywink, well, no idea about wordpress
jaywink: I'm quite sure they don't ;)
goob: The current branding instructions are for infra D* (e.g. podmins), aren't they?
flaburgan: goob, not only, also about press, etc
jaywink: "<goob> OK, we'll have a Loomio discussion about use of branding by third parties." <--- want to do that? ;)
goob: So it sounds as though most are happy with asking this site to correct the information (VPS etc).
goob: I'll start a Loomio discussion.
svbergerem: After voting on loomio we could add a link to the branding page on diasporafoundation.org
jaywink: ok great
jaywink: svbergerem, good idea
goob: Let's also talk (Loomio?) about whether we want to ask sites which use D* branding to channel a small portion of proceeds to D*.
goob: (dea suggested above)
svbergerem: goob: let's do that on Loomio
jhass: I think that's a good follow up once we got the unixstickers situation cleared
jaywink: flaburgan, hey, want to add something to some earlier stuff? or anyone else got other topics? we processed the ones in the wiki
jhass: then we probably know our possibilities
svbergerem: jhass: sounds good
goob: Yes, that links in with donations discussion, we'll need to decide our approach to funding issues first.
flaburgan: jaywink, well, quickly, I think we should put a paypal button on the diasporafoundation website, but don't advertise it more than that because we don't know now how we will use the money, eventually put back the "if the pod doesn't set its own paypal button, we put the one of the foundation"
flaburgan: I'd like to ask to the FSSN how much money we have ther
flaburgan: e
DeadSuperHero: We can do that.
flaburgan: agree about the one week freeze
jaywink: flaburgan, DeadSuperHero volunteered to comms with them and cc team@
svbergerem: goob: when adding a vote on Loomio there are two scenarios to think about: 1) someone uses the branding to advertise a product 2) the branding is the product (like unixstickers)
jaywink: jhass, did I get team@ membership with the repo rights? ;)
flaburgan: DeadSuperHero, so maybe ask them to send us an email at the beginning of each which will summarize how much we have, who gave what...
jhass: jaywink: hmm, DenSchub knows :P
DenSchub: huh?
jhass: is jason on team@?
flaburgan: about unixstickers I already said what I think on loomio
DenSchub: i suppose so
DenSchub: give me a sec
flaburgan: I also agree we should do a minor release once the hovercard bug is fixed, which will contains the aspect stream fix too
jaywink: I hope it's low volume if I'm not ;)
jhass: jaywink: yeah, just spam
DenSchub: oh, no jason on team@ or security@
goob: svbergerem, thanks will include both those points.
jhass: well, security@ is a team, he'd need to volunteer for
jaywink: I don't know squat about rails security issues - so maybe just on team@
flaburgan: oh and yeah, that's not on the agenda, but I **really** want a way in the admin panel to delete a user.
jhass: hm, we never talked about a policy for team@
DenSchub: jhass: did your question imply a action? ;p
jaywink: jhass, I don't need to be on team@ - was just wondering :D
DenSchub: +n
flaburgan: which would delete all his posts too, and use federation to delete them on other pods too
flaburgan: Spam is coming :(
goob: flaburgan, I don't think anyone would oppose that,
jaywink: flaburgan, +1 but that really is just that someone needs to write code - sure no one would object
jhass: I guess having github org members on team@ would be a good policy
goob: so maybe don't need to discuss it, just someone to create it.
DenSchub: please drop me an email if i need to change something, i'm in a team meeting atm
flaburgan: jaywink, goob yeah. I'll use diaspora HQ to ask for someone to deal with it
svbergerem: there is already a discussion on loomio about spam mentioning easy ways for podmins to remove users/posts/comments
flaburgan: yep
goob: Do we have anything left to decide?
jaywink: ok need to get to bed soon... should we end the meeting?
goob: I need my supper.
jhass: jaywink: shoot DenSchub or me a mail if you want to be on team@. Nothing more from my side
flaburgan: one last point
flaburgan: what do we want to include in 3.1.0.0 which will be released when hovercards will be fixed?
flaburgan: (actual changelog here: https://github.com/diaspora/diaspora/blob/develop/Changelog.md )
svbergerem: we already decided that the next release will only include fixes for the regressions
jaywink: and if hovercards is not fixed -> we talk next meeting
goob: flaburgan, next release (with hovercard fix) will be a bug fix, 0.3.0.2, and will only include regression fixes.
goob: See discussion above.
flaburgan: svbergerem, fixes, yes, but I think the fix about youtube https should be in the next release even if the regression was not introduced by 0.3
flaburgan: goob, it's a 0.3.1.0 no? I mean, hotfixes are for security problems, aren't they?
svbergerem: flaburgan: sounds legit
svbergerem: AFAIK 0.3.0.1 did not fix security problems
jaywink: flaburgan, no, hotfixes are for any critical fixes
goob: 0.3.0.1 was a performance problem fix, not a security fix.
jaywink: ie "path"
jaywink: patch
flaburgan: well, with the new mobile menu, the next version is a 0.4
jaywink: yay :)
jaywink: but got to go - see ya guys :)
flaburgan: I have the feeling that we are not going to use the "minor" number anymore
svbergerem: flaburgan: we'll see in the next meetings ;)
</pre>
== Other meetings ==
* See [[Meetings]] for an overview.
{{Special:Prefixindex/Meetings/}}
[[Category:Community]]
[[Category:Meetings]]

Latest revision as of 03:21, 17 August 2017

Topics to discuss

Diaspora Foundation

Structure

How do we want to make use of the foundation structure? What needs to happen for the foundation to have a meaningful practical role in the project? (e.g., do we appoint officers? formalise a structure?)

Donations

Do we want to accept donations at the moment, and if so, what do we want to use funds for? Does anyone know about the legal aspects of bypassing the FSSN for donations, so that people can donate using means other than Paypal?

Bitnami installers

Has anyone tested the installers created by Bitnami? http://bitnami.com/stack/diaspora

If so, are these the finished product or are they less than perfect? Do we want to officially promote the Bitnami installers to encourage more people to set up pods?

Release process

Next release

   We'll decide at each monthly meeting whether we are ready to release a new version within the next month.

Prevent regressions in future releases

0.3.0.0 introduced a lot of regressions. How do we prevent that in future releases?

Topics from last meeting

diaspora* hosting via arvixe.com

What happened?

What did we decide?

1. Diaspora Foundation -> Structure

How do we want to make use of the foundation structure? What needs to happen for the foundation to have a meaningful practical role in the project? (e.g., do we appoint officers? formalise a structure?)

Discussion:
  • The current informal structure is working well, and we are improving our efficiency in dealing with tasks that need attention.
Action points:
  • We will continue with the current informal structure unless weaknesses with this approach become apparent.

2. Donations

Do we want to accept donations at the moment, and if so, what do we want to use funds for? Does anyone know about the legal aspects of bypassing the FSSN for donations, so that people can donate using means other than Paypal?

Discussion:
  • At the moment we don't have concrete ideas what any funds raised could be used for.
  • We have one means of accepting donations: to the FSSN via their Paypal account.
  • We would like to have other means of donating (flattr, Bitcoin, etc).
Action points:
  • We will add a donate button to the project site.
  • DeadSuperHero will contact the FSSN to establish better communication with them, and to clarify the situation concerning any funds they receive.
  • DeadSuperHero and goob will draft a proposal and we will discuss on Loomio what we will use funds for.

3. Bitnami installers

Has anyone tested the installers created by Bitnami? If so, are these the finished product or are they less than perfect? Do we want to officially promote the Bitnami installers to encourage more people to set up pods?

Discussion:
  • The Bitnami package is closed-source, although all it does is install the Diaspora code.
  • We have a link to these installers on our wiki, but will not promote the Bitnami installers further than this.

4. Next release.

Discussion:
  • Many regressions introduced by 0.3.0.x have been fixed. The poor functioning of hovercards is one fix which is outstanding.
Action points:
  • We will release a bug fix release as soon as possible, once hovercards have been fixed.
  • This will contain only fixes for the regressions caused by 0.3.0.0, and any other important bug fixes.
  • New code will be held over until a release at a later date.

5. Preventing regressions in future releases

0.3.0.0 introduced a lot of regressions. How do we prevent that in future releases?

Action points:
  • At each monthly meeting, we will decide whether to release in the next month, and what bits of code (if any) we will wait to be merged before releasing.
  • There will be a one-week 'code freeze' between the last piece of code being merged and releasing, to give proper time for testing.
  • This one-week period will not apply to critical bug fixes, but will apply to code such as new features, refactoring etc.

6. diaspora* hosting via arvixe.com

What happened?

Discussion:
  • jaywink and marekjm sent an email to the hoster as agreed in the last meeting. He said he would set up a pod, but has not yet done so.
Action points:
  • jaywink will write to arvixe to ask them to correct the informantion on that page.
  • goob will start a Loomio discussion about our approach to the use of diaspora* branding by third parties: both 1) using the branding to advertise a product 2) the branding is the product (like unixstickers)
  • we'll also discuss whether to ask sites which use D* branding for a contribution, once we've settled the issue of how to use donations (item 2).

IRC logs

goob: Evening all.
svbergerem: good evening goob
goob: hi
DeadSuperHero: hai
goob: Who's chairing the meeting tonight? Fla said he would be late.
jaywink: goob, want to? ;)
goob: I need to take a back seat tonight, sorry.
jaywink: ok - I'll do it then
jaywink: *bangs hammer*
goob: ouch!
jaywink: *krhm* welcome to our meeting, blaa blaa blaa, everybody happy to start?
jaywink: suggestions for meeting topics -> https://wiki.diasporafoundation.org/Meetings/20140211
svbergerem: sure :)
goob: yup
jaywink: 1. Diaspora Foundation -> Structure
jaywink: "How do we want to make use of the foundation structure? What needs to happen for the foundation to have a meaningful practical role in the project? (e.g., do we appoint officers? formalise a structure?) "
goob: This is mine. May already be settled but I don't know the answer.
goob: So thought it was worth raising.
goob: I don't have a strong view on this. I think we're doing quite well at the moment
jaywink: It's a great topic - but I think it's also something we cannot really decide upon, of course we can talk but really someone needs to do something concrete .. like make a proposal for foundation structure / rules - if we want something like that...
goob: with a loose structure, but do we need formal structure to push the project forward?
jaywink: all organizations have structure. even ours does. But our organization is so small that does it need _more_ structure right now?
jhass: I vote for postpone until the current structure shows a concrete weaknesses
svbergerem: jaywink & jhass: I agree
goob: jaywink, you're prob right. Shall we decide if exploring a more formal structure is a good idea or not?
goob: OK, I'm fine with that.
svbergerem: Are there any weaknesses right now?
goob: My question was really whether we can improve on what we have.
jaywink: we've already improved lately - by implementing this meeting and the new release process. SO we are constantly improving
goob: Weaknesses: perhaps only in sometimes not being sure who should tackle which task, eg press enquiries.
goob: So far we've done well by people volunteering. And things are improving.
goob: Is everyone agreed, then, to leave things as they are for now?
svbergerem: yes
jaywink: +1 - and when someone thinks of problems - let's handle them in smaller pieces :)
jaywink: goob, maybe raise the press enquiries on loomio - personally I think it's not that big of an issue who replies, as long as someone would reply :P
jaywink: next topic?
goob: Sure, as long as there's always someone happy to do it!
svbergerem: Oh there is another thing that could be a problem:
svbergerem: raising money
jaywink: that is the next topic
jaywink: :)
jhass: if that's not the case anymore we should just call out to extend the press team. If you need more structure inside the press team that's not a general concern as far as I'm concerned
svbergerem: okay^^
goob: next topic fine by me.
jaywink: Donations
jaywink: "Do we want to accept donations at the moment, and if so, what do we want to use funds for? Does anyone know about the legal aspects of bypassing the FSSN for donations, so that people can donate using means other than Paypal? "
svbergerem: there is also a discussion on loomio about unixstickers
svbergerem: And it is possible that we will get some money for the stickers they sell
goob: It would be great if DeadSuperHero could explain a bit the legal side re donations and FSSN.
jaywink: I think there is some fear about receiving money - I don't see why, if someone wants to push some money into the paypal account we really should let them
svbergerem: jaywink: +1
goob: Now that D* has a non-profit umbrella in USA (FSSN), could we legally accept donations outside of the FSSN channel?
DeadSuperHero: goob: All I know, at this particular moment, is that the FSSN acts as an umbrella for the Diaspora project.
DeadSuperHero: Kind of like a bank account in a sense, they can hold funds for us the way a non-profit holds funds for itself.
jaywink: goob, none of us are legally tied to diaspora as a project - any one of us could receive funds as a personal person - otherwise prob no :)
DeadSuperHero: I think what really needs to happen with FSSN stuff is that we need to find a way to communicate between Diaspora the project and some member of the FSSN.
jhass: ^ +1 on that
svbergerem: +1
DeadSuperHero: Rather, just having something worth communicating about.
jaywink: DeadSuperHero, +1
goob: Is D* still legally incorporated in USA? So do those legal restrictions still apply? Most people now active in project are in other countries.
svbergerem: adding more ways to receive money would be great
DeadSuperHero: It is, but isn't. D inc no longer holds the copyrights or anything.
DeadSuperHero: Tbh it's just the legal name of what is now BackerKit, and is therefore unrelated.
goob: So if FSSN is the legal entity, hopefully D* can accept donations via other channels without problems.
DeadSuperHero: I would imagine so.
goob: It would be great to sort that out, as it seems to be a bit of a sticking point at the moment.
DeadSuperHero: Well, I see it as two sticking points.
DeadSuperHero: One, just maintaining a dialogue with FSSN.
goob: Assuming we want to accept donations, that is!
jaywink: goob, why wouldn't we?
DeadSuperHero: the second is just having goals worthy of the money to raise
goob: Does anyone have communication with FSSN at the moment.
goob: jaywink, I'm just not making assumptions.
DeadSuperHero: No, but admittedly, that kind of thing is just an email away.
DeadSuperHero: I wouldn't mind sending something off to say "Hey, we're still alive, we'd like to know what we should be doing on our end, should we check in with you once a month or something?"
goob: If you wouldn't mind, DSH, that would be a great help.
jaywink: DeadSuperHero, could you do that? asking about the unixstickers deal too?
DeadSuperHero: Yeah, I certainly wouldn't mind. Related to Unixstickers, do we have anything else like that going on?
DeadSuperHero: I thought there was some hosting company that wanted us to plug them?
goob: Oh yes, from last meeting. Did whoever contacted them ever hear back?
jaywink: DeadSuperHero, yeah, they just want visibility for themselves ;) it's a topic later
goob: Yes, later topic.
DeadSuperHero: Understood. I just think we should try summarizing all of those kinds of things in an initial email to FSSN.
goob: So, donations: do we want to actively seek them, and what would we use money for?
svbergerem: there is no actual deal but we could also use tools like flattr
jaywink: ok so DeadSuperHero will contact the FSSN .. I don't think there is anything else except unixstickers going on
goob: Two separate but related questions.
DeadSuperHero: goob: good question
DeadSuperHero: I think one of the obvious things we could do is sponsor some lower-level devs.
DeadSuperHero: For example, Jaywink does a lot of work using Diaspora-tools
DeadSuperHero: Purely hypothetical, but imagine if he could be sponsored to do something more complex down the road, such as JSON import/export from pod to pod.
jaywink: DeadSuperHero, hah no, I can think of many more who would be worth donations than me :)
DeadSuperHero: I know, I'm just saying.
goob: Two approaches: sponsor tasks (eg migrations), or sponsor people.
DeadSuperHero: Somebody out there probably wouldn't mind making a few bucks to help get rid of Diaspora's long-standing complex stuff. I wouldn't mind sponsoring Florian for his work on putting federation into a gem, for example.
DeadSuperHero: That's some pretty heavy stuff that not a lot of people know how to do.
jaywink: we could try to think of a formal budget that would be based on percentages (10% devs, 10% chosen pods, etc etc) - and then spend that monthly or bimonthly?
goob: In other words, do we say 'we'll pay whoever takes this task on', or sponsor people who are doing continuing valuable work?
DeadSuperHero: Not a bad thought, but a formal budget implies formal structure.
DeadSuperHero: And I don't believe we're all that formal really. More volunteer community than anything, and that's okay.
svbergerem: I think we could do that via loomio
goob: To start with, perhaps we should just choose broad areas we'd like money for.
jhass: I think we shouldn't go beyond bug bounties for now
DeadSuperHero: I'd be okay with broad areas rather than bounties.
goob: e.g. development, website costs, pod maintenance, etc.
DeadSuperHero: If anything, that might attract some people more to working on related ideas if we say "We want to evaluate a third-party API", or "we want to redo how our federation works".
jaywink: as long as we agree rules and agree who has authority - bingo, we can then use the money for whatever
goob: Would Loomio be better for this, or during this 'live' meeting?
jaywink: loomio
DeadSuperHero: Loomio.
jaywink: anyone want to draft something? rules, discussion or proposals? ;)
svbergerem: I'd say as soon as we got some money we could ask on Loomio what to do with it
goob: OK. Is everyone positive about seeking funding, and working on Loomio to decide how to use it?
goob: I'm happy to draft something. But will prob need some help/input from others.
jaywink: great
svbergerem: sounds good
goob: I guess one question is: what is D* lacking by not having money?
jaywink: the unixstickers thingy would at least bring something, then we could just add a donate button to the project site ... I don't see why we need to make a big deal of it. but the discussion should start
goob: That could help decide priorities.
DeadSuperHero: I'd be happy to give some input in my spare time, goob. Let's hash something rough out through Diaspora Messages and put our results on Loomio for others to evaluate?
goob: OK DeadSuperHero, thanks. Let's do that.
DeadSuperHero: goob: what is d lacking? Developers that can do the low-level stuff.
DeadSuperHero: more importantly than developers, knowledge on how to work with such things. It remains a niche specialty.
goob: Everyone happy with getting a donation button on the project site?
svbergerem: goob: yes
DeadSuperHero: yes
jaywink: yes
jhass: would jd.com receive funds from the fssn?
svbergerem: When looking at the unixstickers deal we could ask them to send low-level dev XYZ some stickers
DeadSuperHero: I'd be okay with that.
DeadSuperHero: jhass: no
goob: FSSN holds money for D Foundation, not D Inc/jd.com, doesn't it?
jaywink: jd.com already has a donate button btw, it says "Donate to the FSSN" - any idea if it goes to the FSSN or to diaspora*?
DeadSuperHero: it does go to the FSSN
jhass: max was pushing for the donation button quickly after the ffsn took over, that made me suspicious
DeadSuperHero: I get that.
jhass: and the button code on jd.com is actually the same that he wanted to be added to df.org
DeadSuperHero: I think he was just overly eager to get the D* project some independent funds and structure, and he didn't really think about what the funds would be used for.
DeadSuperHero: But no, that button, the funds submitted through it, do not go to him.
DeadSuperHero: We can verify that via FSSN.
goob: I think we can allow people to donate if they want to, and then do active fund-raising once we know what we would use funds for.
jaywink: DeadSuperHero, could you verify the button code once more while you send the email for other stuff too - then we add a button?
jhass: and it's actually the same code in jd.coms "keep this pod running" sidebase
DeadSuperHero: jaywink: I'd be happy to.
jhass: *sidebar
DeadSuperHero: goob: Good thinking.
DeadSuperHero: I think what might be a good idea is sort of a "sort push", in which just every pod has a little place for fundraising to either DF.org or the pod itself.
DeadSuperHero: It wouldn't be huge amounts of money, but that's not the point.
jhass: DeadSuperHero: could you also include a request of clarification about whether jd.com would receive funds in your mail to FSSN please? and CC team@df.org? I'd just be happy to hear from them
DeadSuperHero: jhass: of course
jhass: thank you
jaywink: ok so summa summarum, DeadSuperHero and goob work out some discussion for Loomio, DeadSuperHero contacts the FSSN about improving communications with them AND making sure of the donate button code - then we add a button to the project site?
DeadSuperHero: Sounds like a plan to me.
jaywink: great :)
DeadSuperHero: I can try to get all that done sometime today here. :)
jaywink: next topic: Bitnami installers
DeadSuperHero: I think in my initial email to FSSN, I will introduce team@df so that we can open up communication to be between more individuals from within Diaspora.
jaywink: "Has anyone tested the installers created by Bitnami? http://bitnami.com/stack/diaspora
jaywink: If so, are these the finished product or are they less than perfect? Do we want to officially promote the Bitnami installers to encourage more people to set up pods? "
DeadSuperHero: Are Bitnami installers open?
jhass: the actual installer code is closed source, but all it install is FOSS
jaywink: DeadSuperHero, afaik no? though they provide not only installers, but ready images too
jhass: I'm not sure if we want to promote it beyond listing it on w.df.org/Installation (which we already do)
DeadSuperHero: I suppose the question is whether we'd want to promote a proprietary installer for a FOSS project.
jaywink: someone ran into problems upgrading a 0.2.0.0 bitnami installed pod, ended up reinstalling via git
jaywink: jhass, +1
DeadSuperHero: That being said, could we use the Bitnami installer as an inspiration for our own official solution?
jaywink: we shouldn't suggest it as an official method but just acknowledge that that can be done too
goob: "I suppose the question is whether we'd want to promote a proprietary installer for a FOSS project." - yes, that was my question.
jaywink: so we agree "no - we'll just keep the info up to date in the wiki"?
svbergerem: jaywink +1
goob: jhass & jaywink, yes I agree with that proposal.
jaywink: btw, funnily enough, they sent me a t-shirt lol. guess because of the blog entry. corruption attempt! :D
DeadSuperHero: Yeah, I agree.
DeadSuperHero: Careful, jaywink, you risk becoming a $hill for Bitnami. Capture Theory 2.0
jaywink: OK next -> Release process -> Next release
jaywink: "We'll decide at each monthly meeting whether we are ready to release a new version within the next month."
jaywink: so - do we? :)
jaywink: (or are we)
svbergerem: there were some regression fixes
svbergerem: the hovercard regression remains
DeadSuperHero: Regression fixes would be good. It'd be nice to get hover cards back to normal.
jaywink: must say due to new job I've kept little eye except that many things have been refactored and fixed ... how stable? anyone? everything seems fine on my pod, updated yesterday after the manic merging by jhass :)
goob: I would say wait until all regressions from 0.3.x have been fixed.
goob: Unless there is one which is going to take a long time.
DeadSuperHero: Would we have enough time to Bootstrapify the stream and elements related to it?
jaywink: anyone working on the annoying hovers?
jhass: if the hovercard is fixed I'd be okay with cherry-picking the regression fixes into a new release branch, but there's been quite a bit new code merged that I'd like see further exercised and polished
jaywink: I would shout BIG +1 to hovercard fix any time
goob: A minor release with just regression fixes would be great, new features/etc could wait.
goob: But I'd like to see the hovercards fixed before we release again.
svbergerem: jhass +1
jaywink: so we all agree that we will release a bug fix release if we get hovercards fixed? otherwise let's catch up next meeting
goob: Hi Fla,
goob: jaywink: yes.
svbergerem: agree
svbergerem: DeadSuperHero: I think porting to Bootstrap will take some time
DeadSuperHero: That's okay.
DeadSuperHero: If no one else is working on it, I might be interested in just trying to convert the grid over and getting rid of blueprint.
jaywink: Next -> Prevent regressions in future releases (sorry let's keep going :))
jaywink: "0.3.0.0 introduced a lot of regressions. How do we prevent that in future releases? "
jhass: DeadSuperHero: sure, we welcome that. just keep in mind that it's probably a bit more work than "just" ;)
DeadSuperHero: Yeah, I've learned that one the hard way before. Still, it'd be nice. :3
goob: That would be great, DeadSuperHero.
DeadSuperHero: jaywink: Regarding regressions, I think that's just the nature of development and the fact that we have volunteers all working on different parts of the codebase. Regressions are bound to happen.
goob: I must listen to the experts on this one!
jaywink: DeadSuperHero, totally agree
jhass: the classical way of prevent them in a release is something like a two to three week feature freeze before release
DeadSuperHero: I suppose we might want to think of some way to document how things currently are in Diaspora, how the little pieces all talk to one another, and document pieces that are subject to change.
svbergerem: how to prevent regressions: code freeze for n days where n >= 2
jaywink: IF we wanted we could do a release candidate
DeadSuperHero: RC might be overkill though.
jaywink: but is the occasional regression worth that?
goob: My only thought is that when a new piece of code is introduced, a note to people running develop in pod/test envs:
goob: containing particular potential problems to look out for.
goob: Obviously this can only be done for things which can be foreseen!
jaywink: question: would a feature freeze helped for the current regressions?
svbergerem: goob: those things are tested before merging
jaywink: hovercard - was it merged in just before the release?
goob: Agree with a minimum period between code being merged and released.
jaywink: same for discussions bug fixed in 0.3.0.1?
DeadSuperHero: Maybe. Perhaps if we just spent a week or so picking up regressions before pushing out a stable release?
goob: DeadSuperHero: that's what I was thinking.
svbergerem: jaywink: discussions bug was introduces just a few days before release
goob: But need the view of jhass and others who are at the centre of the coding.
svbergerem: **introduced
jaywink: svbergerem, ok so a feature freeze would prob have helped
svbergerem: btw I meant code freeze +  testing on dev pods
jaywink: svbergerem, yeah code freeze - meant that too ;) we can only "not merge" stuff in
jaywink: should we implement that to our release process? one week? two weeks? IMHO one week would be a good one to start with
jhass: one week is minimum IMO
jhass: from the start of the meeting we decide to release?
DeadSuperHero: Maybe, but should we constrain it to just meetings?
goob: jhass: 1 week minimum, but what time would you say is optimum?
jhass: goob: probably different in each project and I don't have the experience for a single one to answer that
jaywink: jhass, well in the meeting we might say "let's decide to release once X gets merged in in the coming days" .. I'd say the freeze happens after that, not after the meeting
meetingSchub is now known as DenSchub
jhass: we just have to try a few things
jhass: jaywink: ok, sounds sound
goob: jhass: OK, thanks.
goob: jaywink: that sounds like a good idea.
svbergerem: start with 1 week?
jaywink: +1
jhass: okay, optimistic approach
goob: does this apply also to bugfixes, or only 'new' features?
jaywink: imho critical fixes are always critical - no rules apply to them ;)
jhass: new code, fixes to existing code are the point to doing that
jhass: refactoring is considered new code in that
svbergerem: jhass +1
DeadSuperHero: agreed.
goob: sounds good to me.
jaywink: ok, last (listed) topic: diaspora* hosting via arvixe.com
jaywink: "What happened?"
jaywink: :)
jaywink: so as agreed in the previous meeting
jhass: we didn't hear back, right?
jhass: does he still advertise with our brand?
jaywink: we sent an email to the guy (I did, Marek helped draft it)
flaburgan: hi guys
DeadSuperHero: hey fla
jaywink: he replied back, saying he will try to set up the demo instance (as we agreed we would ask)
svbergerem: hey flaburgan
jaywink: this was 27th jan
jaywink: I sent another query yesterdya - no reply
jaywink: BUT
jaywink: the page they created with our branding is in fact not linked to their site
jaywink: so it's something they made to show to us so we would be interested - so I doubt they are "using our brand to advertise" yet at least
jaywink: but still, the page makes false promised
jaywink: s
jaywink: that diaspora* can run on their $4 /mo shared plans
jaywink: so we really can just tell them we don't want to cooperate and ask to destroy the page OR we can ask them to change the information to a minimum VPS deal?
jaywink: it would be beneficial for the project for them to list the page on their home page (imho) - but the details need to be right
jaywink: I assume it would end up on the list here if we approved: http://www.arvixe.com/social_network_hosting
goob: If they haven't proven that a d* pod can successfully be run on their service, should we be directing people towards them?
goob: Even passively - I don't mean we actively tell people to use them.
jaywink: goob, they offer VPS's so I'm sure their servers can run diaspora - just not with the details now on the page where they say "as low as $4 a month" (shared hosting)
jaywink: having them list us doesn't mean we have to list them :)
goob: Is there any benefit to D* to be promoted via a particular host?
jaywink: goob, there is always benefit to having links to the project on any internet site :)
goob: I think better for us to focus on having really clear info for potential podmins (which I'm going to work on).
DeadSuperHero: Yeah, I agree with goob.
goob: Agreement from last meeting:
goob: - We decided to give the company two weeks to provide running demo server of Diaspora*.
goob: - If they fail we'll give them one week to remove the branding.
goob: - Upon failure to remove the branding, escalate the issue to FSSN.
goob: So I guess we've already decided what to do.
jaywink: well, technically the site is not live - so I'm not sure how we can demand them to remove the branding - of course we can but ... :)
DeadSuperHero: I guess we could try following up with them before looking to the FSSN for help?
goob: DeadSuperHero, yes following up with them is step 2, involving FSSN is step 3.
DeadSuperHero: ;)
jaywink: also, why don't we want hosting providers to advertise us?
DeadSuperHero: It's not that we don't.
DeadSuperHero: If anything, the ubiquity is nice.
DeadSuperHero: But we also want to embrace making installation viable for anyone, on any host that isn't shared hosting.
goob: jaywink, they're advertising themselves using D*'s name.
goob: Which isn't necessarily bad, but we want to be sure that their promises are good.
jaywink: goob, doesn't any VPS advertise with say Wordpress name when they say our services run Wordpress?
goob: Otherwise could associate D* with a bad name - if people see D*'s name there and sign up with them to host a pod and then have problems, they might be annoyed with D*.
DeadSuperHero: I suppose it all boils down to presentation.
DeadSuperHero: If they're just offering "Diaspora Pod hosting", I see nothing wrong with that.
DeadSuperHero: Claiming to be Diaspora and themselves be involved in Diaspora's development is where fallacious logic comes into play.
goob: So why did we decide as we did last month? Everyone was agreed then, I thought.
jaywink: this is the landing page they proposed: http://www.arvixe.com/diaspora-hosting
DeadSuperHero: It doesn't look bad.
goob: When we agreed that if they didn't set up a pod within two weeks, we would given them one week to remove the branding.
jaywink: goob, at the time I though the page was linked to their home page. it is not (or it's hidden somewhere)
goob: Well surely if they haven't complied with our step 1, we don't want that page to go live?
svbergerem: ask them to correct the information or otherwise remove the page?
jaywink: svbergerem, +1
jaywink: also the branding is actually wrong. I don't think that image is even on our branding page :)
goob: So are we no longer concerned whether they can set up a pod?
jaywink: goob, in a VPS environment, we know a pod can be set up
DeadSuperHero: Well, what would it take to get that page fixed up?
DeadSuperHero: Correct the branding, maybe make some links to DF.org more prominent.
DeadSuperHero: Ensure that a live version of a pod on their hosting platform doesn't suck.
jaywink: http://www.arvixe.com/vps_virtual_private_servers_hosting
DeadSuperHero: No mention of Diaspora.
goob: Well it definitely needs to make clear that D* needs a VPS.
goob: But at $40 minimum (not cheap for a VPS), that might put people off setting up a pod!
goob: So do we want to be associated with them?
jaywink: goob, no one is endorsing them
goob: I repeat my question from earlier: what will be the benefit to D* of having a logo on their site?
goob: I'd say it would be minimal. The benefit (if any) will be to them
DeadSuperHero: I just don't think there's a huge detriment.
svbergerem: DeadSuperHero: +1
DeadSuperHero: If someone doesn't like those prices, maybe Diaspora can point to other prices on other services.
jaywink: I don't think there is a real issue here except with the false info IF they linked the page to their actual site. And if they fix the information and link it - hey, more links to D*
svbergerem: If anyone would like to promote his service by mentioning that you can run diaspora* on it is fine as long as the given information is correct
jaywink: +1
DeadSuperHero: +1
goob: We already voted a month ago to ask them to remove the branding.
goob: That remains my vote.
goob: You others can outvote me if you want.
jaywink: hmm. well, I guess we have to vote then. of course goob if you feel so strongly on keeping the resolution of last time (there is no reason we cannot rethink things) - then we can move this to loomio
svbergerem: Even if the page is not live we should ask them to remove it or improve it
goob: Ask them to correct information for now.
goob: We can always review later.
jaywink: ok
goob: I'm happy with majority vote in this meeting, although I'm aware there are only 4 of us talking at the moment.
goob: Would like to hear from a few more.
DeadSuperHero: If you'd like, start a poll on Loom?
jhass: I'm silent because I'm unsure, I feel like it's not good that this page exists but it's a feeling I can't back by strong reasoning, thus I'm silent
goob: I think it's not major enough for Loomio. Plus Loomio votes take ages.
goob: How about:
goob: Ask them to correct information for now.
DeadSuperHero: Works for me.
goob: Or remove page.
svbergerem: +1
goob: But don't say anything about 'we're happy for the page to go live'.
jaywink: ok - I can send email and CC press as before (unless someone else wants to)
goob: And then we'll make some guidelines for any hosting website that wants to use D*'s name/branding.
jhass: jaywink: apparently not, thank you
flaburgan: do we want to ask them money because they use the brand?
jaywink: goob, we should really have more guidelines in the branding page
flaburgan: :p
jaywink: we don't even have any instructions on who can use the branding
jaywink: just a bunch of pics
svbergerem: ahh flaburgan is back :)
jaywink: how can we claim they cannot be used if we don't say so?
flaburgan: the time to read (quickly) the whole conversation :p
goob: OK, we'll have a Loomio discussion about use of branding by third parties.
jaywink: flaburgan, does wordpress get money from everyone who advertises wordpress installs? ;)
goob: So we're clear about it in the future,
flaburgan: jaywink, we have some instructions about uppercase and stuff like that
flaburgan: jaywink, well, no idea about wordpress
jaywink: I'm quite sure they don't ;)
goob: The current branding instructions are for infra D* (e.g. podmins), aren't they?
flaburgan: goob, not only, also about press, etc
jaywink: "<goob> OK, we'll have a Loomio discussion about use of branding by third parties." <--- want to do that? ;)
goob: So it sounds as though most are happy with asking this site to correct the information (VPS etc).
goob: I'll start a Loomio discussion.
svbergerem: After voting on loomio we could add a link to the branding page on diasporafoundation.org
jaywink: ok great
jaywink: svbergerem, good idea
goob: Let's also talk (Loomio?) about whether we want to ask sites which use D* branding to channel a small portion of proceeds to D*.
goob: (dea suggested above)
svbergerem: goob: let's do that on Loomio
jhass: I think that's a good follow up once we got the unixstickers situation cleared
jaywink: flaburgan, hey, want to add something to some earlier stuff? or anyone else got other topics? we processed the ones in the wiki
jhass: then we probably know our possibilities
svbergerem: jhass: sounds good
goob: Yes, that links in with donations discussion, we'll need to decide our approach to funding issues first.
flaburgan: jaywink, well, quickly, I think we should put a paypal button on the diasporafoundation website, but don't advertise it more than that because we don't know now how we will use the money, eventually put back the "if the pod doesn't set its own paypal button, we put the one of the foundation"
flaburgan: I'd like to ask to the FSSN how much money we have ther
flaburgan: e
DeadSuperHero: We can do that.
flaburgan: agree about the one week freeze
jaywink: flaburgan, DeadSuperHero volunteered to comms with them and cc team@
svbergerem: goob: when adding a vote on Loomio there are two scenarios to think about: 1) someone uses the branding to advertise a product 2) the branding is the product (like unixstickers)
jaywink: jhass, did I get team@ membership with the repo rights? ;)
flaburgan: DeadSuperHero, so maybe ask them to send us an email at the beginning of each which will summarize how much we have, who gave what...
jhass: jaywink: hmm, DenSchub knows :P
DenSchub: huh?
jhass: is jason on team@?
flaburgan: about unixstickers I already said what I think on loomio
DenSchub: i suppose so
DenSchub: give me a sec
flaburgan: I also agree we should do a minor release once the hovercard bug is fixed, which will contains the aspect stream fix too
jaywink: I hope it's low volume if I'm not ;)
jhass: jaywink: yeah, just spam
DenSchub: oh, no jason on team@ or security@
goob: svbergerem, thanks will include both those points.
jhass: well, security@ is a team, he'd need to volunteer for
jaywink: I don't know squat about rails security issues - so maybe just on team@
flaburgan: oh and yeah, that's not on the agenda, but I **really** want a way in the admin panel to delete a user.
jhass: hm, we never talked about a policy for team@
DenSchub: jhass: did your question imply a action? ;p
jaywink: jhass, I don't need to be on team@ - was just wondering :D
DenSchub: +n
flaburgan: which would delete all his posts too, and use federation to delete them on other pods too
flaburgan: Spam is coming :(
goob: flaburgan, I don't think anyone would oppose that,
jaywink: flaburgan, +1 but that really is just that someone needs to write code - sure no one would object
jhass: I guess having github org members on team@ would be a good policy
goob: so maybe don't need to discuss it, just someone to create it.
DenSchub: please drop me an email if i need to change something, i'm in a team meeting atm
flaburgan: jaywink, goob yeah. I'll use diaspora HQ to ask for someone to deal with it
svbergerem: there is already a discussion on loomio about spam mentioning easy ways for podmins to remove users/posts/comments
flaburgan: yep
goob: Do we have anything left to decide?
jaywink: ok need to get to bed soon... should we end the meeting?
goob: I need my supper.
jhass: jaywink: shoot DenSchub or me a mail if you want to be on team@. Nothing more from my side
flaburgan: one last point
flaburgan: what do we want to include in 3.1.0.0 which will be released when hovercards will be fixed?
flaburgan: (actual changelog here: https://github.com/diaspora/diaspora/blob/develop/Changelog.md )
svbergerem: we already decided that the next release will only include fixes for the regressions
jaywink: and if hovercards is not fixed -> we talk next meeting
goob: flaburgan, next release (with hovercard fix) will be a bug fix, 0.3.0.2, and will only include regression fixes.
goob: See discussion above.
flaburgan: svbergerem, fixes, yes, but I think the fix about youtube https should be in the next release even if the regression was not introduced by 0.3
flaburgan: goob, it's a 0.3.1.0 no? I mean, hotfixes are for security problems, aren't they?
svbergerem: flaburgan: sounds legit
svbergerem: AFAIK 0.3.0.1 did not fix security problems
jaywink: flaburgan, no, hotfixes are for any critical fixes
goob: 0.3.0.1 was a performance problem fix, not a security fix.
jaywink: ie "path"
jaywink: patch
flaburgan: well, with the new mobile menu, the next version is a 0.4
jaywink: yay :)
jaywink: but got to go - see ya guys :)
flaburgan: I have the feeling that we are not going to use the "minor" number anymore
svbergerem: flaburgan: we'll see in the next meetings ;)

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